Women in leadership

Women are much more likely to hold the top spot at credit unions than they are at banks, according to “Women in Credit Union Leadership,” a report from CUNA.

Two outstanding credit union CEOs join the CUNA News Podcast to talk about women’s leadership:

• Leigh Brady, CEO at $50 billion asset State Employees Credit Union in Raleigh, N.C.
• Linda White, executive director at the Credit Union Women’s Leadership Alliance and a former credit union CEO.

They speak about their journeys to the CEO chair, challenges they faced, what sets female leaders apart, advice they have for women who aspire to take on leadership roles, and more.

Chapters

• 4:37 Women in credit union leadership
• 6:40 Breaking through the glass ceiling
• 10:25 Leaders show up and talk to others
• 13:25 What sets women leaders apart
• 22:14 Advice for women who aspire to lead

Transcript

Jennifer: Women continue to hold the top leadership position at credit unions.  51 percent of credit union CEOs are women, according to Women in Credit Union Leadership, a report from CUNA. I'm Jennifer Plager, Managing Editor with CUNA News. I recently spoke with Leigh Brady, CEO at 50 billion asset State Employees' Credit Union in Raleigh, North Carolina, and Linda White, Executive Director at the Credit Union Women's Leadership Alliance. 

During our conversation, they spoke about their journeys to the CEO chair, challenges they faced, what sets female leaders apart, advice they have for women who aspire to take on the leadership role, and more.

Jennifer: Leigh, Linda, thank you and welcome to the CUNA News podcast.

Why don't we start with, with an easy one and let's, let's, just tell me a little bit about your background and what you do now and how you got to where you are today. Linda, let's start with you. 

Linda: So I'm Linda White. I'm the Executive Director of the Credit Union Women's Leadership Alliance. The acronym is pronounced CULA.

I know that that's a lot of people. Kind of a fluster or how you say it. I actually started out in credit unions when I was 18 years old. And so I grew up in the credit union world. I left for a brief period of time and I recently retired as the CEO of a credit union in Northern California, Upward credit union. So I, I used to work at a passport studio and the CEO of the credit union in the federal building

saw me and asked me to come and interview and on day one. I was promoted from a receptionist to a tailer. So I will say when people talk about challenging things, I will say that I had back and then you had cash, lots and lots of cash and I was short 100 dollars twice in three months and I got suspended.

for a week and had to pay the money back, which is like, never would that ever happen in today's world. And I remember I was young, I was 18. I remember going to my brother and crying and I'm like, Oh my God, what do I do? And he says, you've got to go back. If you don't go back, they'll think you stole the money.

So if I hadn't gotten that sage advice at the age of 18, I would not be where I am today, because I worked my way up to CEO and with CEO of my credit union for almost 

Jennifer: 25 years, some good advice from your brother. Yeah. Yeah. And Leigh, what about your story? 

Leigh: my, my story that I tell is that I started when I was 12, but, uh, I don't know why.

It's no, I, I started at at SECU in 1987, straight out of NC State University. And I started as an accountant in our accounting department and moved my way through the organization in a variety of jobs. The joke is I couldn't hold a position, I guess. So I spent about five years in our accounting department and then moved to audit.

And spent about seven years there and then moved to loan admin and started a secondary marketing department Then was asked to start a consumer education group and then they started piling on other things and then I got HR That's always fun And and then I've moved into the COO position, so the Chief Operating Officer, and then I've been in the CEO role a whopping total of five months now.

But overall, you know, obviously 36 years at the organization, and and I can just tell you extremely humbled to be in this position 

Jennifer: I am today. It sounds like you both have great stories and I'm excited to, to chat with you a little bit about what you've learned along your journeys and, and how that, how that helped you and what kind of advice you have for others.

Cause it sounds like you two are folks who have a lot of advice that, that people would find valuable. So part of the reason I wanted to chat with you today is that CUNA recently released an update to their issue on women. Women's leadership in credit unions. And it, it, the research found that what, 51 percent of credit union CEOs and 36 percent of board members are females.

And that's, those are bigger numbers than in like say banks where it's, I think 4 percent CEOs and, and 23%. Board members are, are female. So why, why do you think it is that credit unions just have more women in these, these big leadership type roles? 

Leigh: Well, I'll start that one and and you know, I'll tell you from my perspective, I think that credit unions historically have, have been a lot more inclusive.

a smaller Bank with stickers in traditional banks, and I also think that from the standpoint of small, and this might relate more to a Community bank than a larger bank but smaller institutions, just like, like Linda was talking about. Linda, Linda grew up in that credit Union.. And I think that that is the story for quite a number of small credit unions of where you've done every single job in that credit union and so you know it inside and out.

And, and so I think that from the standpoint of giving folks a chance, credit unions historically give females probably more opportunities than males, in my opinion, and it comes down to inclusivity. Linda, what do you think? 

Linda: Yeah, I, I would agree with that. And I think like, like Leigh said, growing up in the credit union, many of our members of CUNA have grown up in the crediting your world.

And I think, is it a matter of women tend to be nurturers and they'll do whatever it takes. That's not to say that there aren't men that aren't nurturers too, but, you know, more of our crediting and CEOs from the small critties have grown up with the crediting. I mean, the crediting I was at was 3 million when I started there and it grew to a hundred million and it's, yeah.

Doing anything it'll take to get the job done and helping your community. So I, I think the growing up part is like a true statement. I mean, through and through. Absolutely. 

Jennifer: And you both, you both talk about, you know, growing up in the small credit unions and, but at the same time, we're seeing a little bit of that struggle with, with the larger institutions, the, the The, the bigger ones.

Leigh, you, you're kind of, you've broken through that, you've broken through that glass ceiling. You, you grew from, you know, the, the big ones. Why do you think that, that kind of quote, glass ceiling kind of exists in some of the larger credit unions that are out there for women? Yeah. You know, 

Leigh: I'll just tell you that from the historic perspective of larger financial institutions and credit unions are in that, that space as well they were traditionally led by, by men.

And and so, you know, sometimes you, you were, you were led by that, but the next level down and the next level down, they were also met. And so as. As you looked at the female and, and look, I go back, I can, I go back from the HR perspective, I can go way back and I can tell you that 20 some odd years ago in our credit union, even our, our, I guess demographics shift, we had 86 percent female and I mean, unbelievable amount of female, but we had one female leader.

And and that was an issue. It really was, and I know it's Sue Douglas and, and probably a lot of folks know Sue. So cause she's done a heck of a lot in the industry and she's retired now, but I think she set the stage for quite a number of other females to have opportunities. But, but when you're looking at someone who is a peer and like minded and looks like you and acts like you.

From the male perspective, for, for female, it's hard to break in and break through that barrier. So, you know, we, at our organization, I think, are, are specifically very, you know, I'm, I'm appreciative of Sue breaking that ceiling here into management, because it has afforded others the opportunity. Now, we are about 64, 65 percent female in our organization, but then look at our leadership and from the leadership standpoint, I have eight direct reports to me for female, for male.

So it's, it's a good balance. And up until recently, our board was primarily female. So it's we, we've come a long ways, so, and I know that's a cliche term, but we have. 

Jennifer: What do you think Linda? Linda. 

Linda: It's just, when I'm listening to Leigh, it's kind of like the glass ceiling, it's obviously like her glass ceiling is a little bigger than our glass ceiling.

You know, I think for female leaders, it's, it's You know, coming to the table and showing up. It's, it's that glass ceiling. It's like, how do you walk into a room? I remember walking into a circle of men at a conference, a very large conference that we all go to. And, and having somebody say, you know, I just met them and five minutes later, we're in a circle of men that I know.

And somebody says, Oh, hi, I'm so and so. Nice to meet you. And it's like, how do you stand up? And, and I, I'm proud that I said, yes, I know. I just met you five minutes ago. to really stand up and show up and, and, you know, it's okay to have, like you said, how, how do you show up and, and being equal? 

Leigh: Linda, to, to your point there, you've probably experienced some of the same things where you're, you're in a group.

All men and you know, they're all shaking each other's hands. Yeah. You know, and then you come in and they're like, Hi Leigh, how are you? I'm like, I'm great. And I'm shaking their hands. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, and it is, it's showing up. 

Jennifer: And you, Leigh, you've talked about how it's starting to be, we're starting to see women in these roles and, and that's a good thing.

And, and Linda, you talk about, you know, well, what do women have to do to get there and it's showing up, but what else do they need to do to, to find themselves in that leadership position? And get through that, that ceiling. 

Linda: it's, it is the showing of, but it's like, how do you like, talk to like minded people?

So that's one of the reasons CUNA was formed. Like, how do you have that safe space to say, you know, I don't know what I don't know, and to, like, How do you know to show up and not be classified as an ugly word? You know, one of the things that we provide our members is that safe space of communication, and I've been on other platforms where I've seen people pose a question and the response is, why didn't you, or the board only has one employees, that's the CEO, and that's your decision, and the person responding was.

And then I see those same conversations occurring with our members now, and I just sit back and smile. It reminds me why at a retirement, I'm the executive director and I love what I'm doing is to be able to see these women supporting each other to like, I can't, it makes me emotional to say, how can I help you?

I'm sorry, you're going through that. Have you thought about that? The language and it's like to be better. It's not about wanting to attack each other's out. How do we all collectively be better to do what we need to do? It's kind of like the egos are kind of out of the room. So I think really finding a mentor, finding a network and, and ways to improve yourself and your leadership and what, like you said, you don't know what you don't know, but how do you find what that is?

Leigh: Yeah, I, you know, I agree with you on that, Linda, and. You know, I'll just tell you from, from my perspective, what, what I see sometimes is women are trying to change who they are sometimes to fit in and, and I would always, you know, I caution folks, just, just be you, you know be confident in who you are as a female and what you bring to the table and, and having those open lines of obviously communication and that confidence You know, that, that's tough sometimes in given environments, but, but as you indicate, I do think it's getting better.

I do think with mentorship I do think with support networks. I think that, that, you know, we're going to all be where we need to be. Yeah. We are, we're making great 

Jennifer: progress. I like that talking of, you know, creating a place of safety where you, where you can talk amongst, you know, bounce ideas and, and problems and issues off of each other and, and not feel like she doesn't know what she's doing kind of thing.

I, I like that idea of that and, and, you know, that supporting of, of each other. I think that's super important for any person, but I mean, especially women, I think. So what, what, and this is going to sound like a weird question coming from me. What makes a female a great leader in your minds? Why should, why should hiring committees or selection committees consider a female?

What do they bring to the table that maybe a man doesn't? 

Leigh: Okay, I'm going out on a limb here. 

No, we're, we are fabulous multitask. I was 

Linda: going to say the same thing. Multitasking. I mean, it is. 

Leigh: And you know, I think. That you guys talked a little, you know, on the nurturing side, Linda, you mentioned that earlier the empathy side the, the fact that, you know, and especially women, I mean, if you've ever had kids too, you are used to dealing with the unknown at any point in time.

And and I think that. All of those traits mixed together, they, they make for a fabulous leader. And then from the standpoint of the collaborative nature of women, I think they're, they're very collaborative. And, and, you know, I mean, I'm, look, I've been through, A lot of CEOs. In a 36 year career, I've already worked for CEOs.

And and I think that quite often women are, are able just to listen to observe, to learn, and absorb what someone is doing really well. And that is well received. And then what someone just does very poorly as a leader. And I think that we take all of, all of that information, we absorb it, but then we work to mold ourselves into what we think may be the best leader.

And quite often I find that, that women are very good at maybe emulating the type of leader that, that they would want to work for.

Jennifer: What do you think? 

Linda: You know, so Leigh, Leigh took my word, but it's actually, it's not, no, it's not my word. So when members apply for CUNA, one of the things we ask them is what is your superpower? And I will say multitasking is probably the number one thing that is said. Other ones that come to mind is connectors.

That's what I call myself. So when I put like, what is my superpower? I say I'm a connector. And it's just really resiliency comes up. And I think think that's a learned behavior of how to be resilient and not coil up and shy away. So like I tell people, I'm a shy extrovert. Now they laugh and they roll off their seats, but that's the reality.

And it's like, right. And I can, it goes back to that showing up to, to not, not to. to have that confidence and to not feel like you're less than, like you don't belong there. But I think it's like, I would say multitasking, resiliency, and, and all those other things that Leigh mentioned, empathy, but yeah, the resiliency and, and, and not afraid to do whatever it takes.

Jennifer: What do you mean by that? 

Linda: Well, it's like, well, like Leigh said, one day they might be changing a baby diaper, the next day they're coming into the credit union to like empty the garbage, you know, and there's not, there's nothing that's beneath them. I, I mean, like I said, this is, this, I, I can't, I'm not a man, so I can't say that for a man.

And I, I, you know, but I, I used to have a, my boss before me, he would come in at 10 and leave at three because he was like the. you know, contractor on his remodel. And it's like, I'm there at seven and I leave at six. And you know, not that I need to be there that long, but you know, we'll do what it needs to take, what you need to do.

But I really think it's going to go back to all the things that we've said that kind of all dovetail, you know, showing up, don't be afraid of your own shadow, having a safe space to kind of like know, you know, it's, it's interesting to hear. more often than not that, gosh, I'm not the only one. Right. And to hear Leigh say going into a room of people and, you know, everybody just saying, Oh, hi, instead of like just shaking, you're another CEO.

Right?

Jennifer: have female leaders, have they changed in the past? I don't know, three, four years, given the environments that we've been in the pandemic and virtual and hybrid and remote and in office and have they had to change or have they changed for better or worse?

Leigh: I'll just tell you one of the things that scares me a little bit is is the survey data that's showing women that are moving out of the workforce. And, and what does that mean for the future of of women in leadership, because, you know, I think that the pandemic, obviously, when it, it changed a lot of things for us and, Foundationally it changed families in a big way.

And, and so I, I do worry a little bit about that for the future. Now, for the, for the ones who have stayed in the workforce uh, I do think that the more women that are going to be put in CEO positions or high leadership positions, C suite positions are inspiring. I, I can tell you that I grossly underestimated.

The impact that me being named as the first female CEO of this credit union would mean to a lot of our, our female team members. And as I go across the state and I meet and talk with a lot of our, our team members. I, I am incredibly humbled by the, you know, the support and the, the messages of inspiration that they say, just me being named and, and them watching my journey has meant to them.

So, and then, you know, I mean, look, I'm just Leigh, I'm just Leigh and, and I will work my tail off in whatever job that I'm, I'm going to be doing, you know, it's just like Linda said, you know, it's, it's nothing if I'm. If I'm here when the, the housekeeping folks are coming in and I'm, you know, I'm lifting my trash can to help out here.

That's just, it's just what we do. So I, I've never really, you know, thought it would just be as impactful, but I think the more that you have those types of stories. in credit unions, then I think the more it'll spur on potential future, future electors, let's say. What do you think, Linda? 

Linda: Yeah, I love that.

And I love that you said, I'm just Leigh because I think that's what I'm like, Oh my gosh, I'm going to be on a podcast with Leigh Brady. And it's kind of like, and, and somebody said, Leigh is amazing. Just you're, you're fine. And I think one of the things is like, even at, you know, I ran a hundred million dollar credit union, but the reality of it is, is no matter.

How small or how large and crediting is as you've grown in your career to take the time to stop and kind of go, I have something to give and to pay it forward. And I think that's right. That is like why CUNA was formed. Lily New Farmer is like that was her brainchild, but it's really, you know, I get to now the navigate that not all of our members are the Lily New Farmers and Maria Martinez of the world.

We have people that are like. You know, they're just starting out. And, and, and man, where was this when I was a CEO 20 years ago? That, that's the other thing we hear. Where was this when I started out? To have that vulnerability of gosh, you know, we have, we have people that are CEOs for two weeks. I mean, I have somebody that wants to be part of our coaching program and has asked me three times, and she'll now be CEO in January.

She now can be part of our coaching program. So the, the, the hunger we've created that platform of to have that hunger and desire. But if nothing more, that's where I, I keep sticking with it is because paying it forward. And as we have members that are retiring saying, you know what, you can still give.

Amen. 

Leigh: Yeah. And, and, you know Lily and I were in the same DE class and the same group together. Best class, best group.

Linda: We were the D lighters, I'm just saying. That's like the best team name ever.

Jennifer: You both talked about, you know, giving back and, and the impact that you've had. You've heard from other folks who have said, you know, seeing you in the positions that you're, you're in, how you've been inspirational a little bit. That kind of segues into, into another question that I had of what kind of advice would you give for, for young women or middle aged women or any woman who wants to be in a, in a high level leadership role or even, you know, mid manager level, who just wants to take on some of that leadership responsibility?

What kind of, what advice would you have for them? 

Linda: Bye in a coaching program. There's no shortage of free coaching programs out there being offered from CULA. There's executive readiness from the Global Women's Leadership Network. There's a I, there's so many leagues that are collaboratively coming together and offering leadership programs.

So basically get out from behind your desk, whatever that looks like. And I think, you know, I was a coach with on the , one to one women leaders and to be able to be a mentor there, to see that we have a future of women that really are bright and want to know, and to be able to just like find something there, like there is a way out there to find some type of leadership.

I have people that like apply that aren't eligible and I refer them to Global Women's. I refer them to their leagues. There's, there is no shortage. CUNA, CUNA has like a mentoring program. There's a mentor match. So. 

Leigh: That's exactly right. Yeah, you know, the other, the other thing that I would say is, is don't give up, um, and, and I say that from the personal perspective, because my journey to CEO, it, it certainly has not been an easy one.

And the fact is that seven years ago, when our long term CEO was retiring, I applied for the job.

You know, look, I'd never applied for a CEO job before, went through the whole process, thought I did pretty well, and when it came down to it, they hired our CFO, who had been here 40 years, and I completely understood. He had been here longer, and And so he was here five years, and then it came time, the job was up again in 21, and I had to do some soul searching, because from the standpoint of confidence, when we talk about confidence you know in my mind, I was, I was doing the same job.

That I, I was doing five years earlier. Now I had gone out and and I was doing some, some more leadership things at the state, at the league level, CUNA, things like that from the council standpoint. But I thought if they didn't want me five years ago, why would they want me now? And, and I had to do soul searching.

And finally, I came to the realization that if I didn't try again, that I would always have that, I wonder what would have happened if, and I didn't want to live with that for the rest of my life. What if, what if so I applied again, and I went through the whole process, and it was a lot more cumbersome this time, right, in 21, and, and it came down to it, and there was 21, and there was One from the outside, and that was me, and, and they hired the one from the outside, and let me tell you, I was incredibly disappointed, I was, and the reason that they did was because he had been a CEO somewhere already, and Because he had been through some technology changes and we needed some of that at our organization.

And, but the one thing that I can tell you is that he, he asked me to take on the role of Chief Operating Officer. And, you know, I could have taken a step back and said, I'm, I'm going somewhere else. All right, but I chose to learn more and I chose to stick my neck out there and learn some additional things that I did.

And when he decided less than two years later, this wasn't the place for him. The board came to me and unanimously they wanted me to be the CEO and that happened in July. And so there's you know, there's always a reason for things. My mother used to call them opportunities in life and and sometimes opportunities work out and sometimes they don't.

But in addition to that, that network and that support team. You will have to stick your neck out there and you will not always succeed. And so you got to be ready for, for heartbreak sometimes in the midst of the climb, because it's not always pretty.

 I know that's a sour note to end on. I'm sorry. 

Jennifer: No, I mean, I was just thinking to myself, you know, about how, how impactful. Lessons you can learn from stuff that doesn't necessarily go your way. That you can take, take a little bit of something out of even the darkest kind of moment out there is cheesy.

Kind of, as that sounds, but 

Leigh: if I didn't have the darkness, I would not see the light now. Exactly. 

Jennifer: So great advice for all women. Any, anything particularly for some of those young professionals who are out there who are maybe just starting their careers or. Trying to figure out what they want to do or any advice for young professional women.

Leigh: Okay. I, I can tell you what this is the advice I give and, and look, I give this to women. I give this to young men. You know, and I'm, I've spoken to some, some leadership classes at some universities and, and look, I can tell you great grades are wonderful. They're wonderful. anD they will probably get you into an organization.

But when you get in to that credit union or whatever, whatever discipline you're going to study, all right, you get in that company, to me, there are two things that are going to make you stand out, and that is work ethic, and Linda talked about that earlier, and the adaptability to change, because the world is changing so drastically now um, and specifically for women, I say you just got to work harder.

You do. Sometimes it, it takes that and it takes that to be noticed and you might be taking on something that is not in that traditional job description, but it is in that, that one line that says all other duties as assigned, which, which combinates culminates a lot of stuff. Right. But it's you taking on things like that.

That kind of elevate your visibility within an organization. And sometimes can be really well worth it. 

Jennifer: Linda, what advice do you have? 

Linda: You know, you remember when you were in school, it's like find the buddy system. You know, who is that person? And, and, you know, he said, not being afraid and not thinking you need to know everything, but being open to learn.

You know, it's, it's also, and when you know, it's like, there was no job, like I said, growing up in the Caribbean, there was no job I didn't do. But, you know, it's, it's also having that person that sees something in you, just, just let them push you. And, and, and so find that person. I mean If I could, if I named the people that helped open doors and push me through them in my career, I, we'd be on here for an hour.

So I didn't do it alone. You know, I didn't do it alone, but because I was insecure and didn't think I knew, but the reality of it is. You know more than you probably think you know, you don't need to know the whole thing before you take a step 

Leigh: to learn. 

Jennifer: Anything we haven't talked about that you want to mention before we, before we wrap up for the day? 

Leigh: I think Linda touched on the giving back and and to the extent that, that women can out there I think giving back in the credit union industry is incredibly important for women.

Specifically so, you know, volunteer for that committee and CUNA councils you know, I mean, volunteer to be a mentor to someone, you know, organize some type of effort, you know, go meet with a legislator from the advocacy standpoint, but, but just just make yourself visible and give back, because I think that there's a bright future for women in our industry, And and it's a pretty exciting time, it is.

Linda: never give up, you know, just to, you know, remember one of the things I always said at my credit union was, what is your why? What is your why? And also, what can you do? It's not what you can't do. It's what you can do. And, and what is your why? Why do you wake up and go to work in the morning?

You know, think about that person you help and I don't know, it's just all encompassing. I think everything that we said, it's just like, just, it's like doing the right thing. It's, it's, you know, what did they say? Everything you ever needed to know, you'll learn in kindergarten.